Podcast #19: Let's Talk about Sex

Okay, so we skipped putting out a podcast last week, so we're making up for it by posting a REALLY INTERESTING podcast this time. :D

Situation of the Week (Jenn): Teaching kids what to do instead of just fussing at them for making mistakes. Amazing how helpful that is.

Links: On Minilectures at Rational Jenn


Topic: Talking to your kids about sex. Yes, there is some explicit discussion here, so be aware of your surroundings when listening! (begins 6:02)

Links: It's Not the Stork: A Book About Girls, Boys, Babies, Bodies, Families and Friends (The Family Library) and It's So Amazing!: A Book about Eggs, Sperm, Birth, Babies, and Families (The Family Library) (that's the book we couldn't remember the name of)


Q & A: What is the best way to deal with rude behavior that is not physically aggressive such as name-calling or sticking your tongue out, particularly in very young children? (begins 31:17)

Podcast Powered By Podbean

Please send us comments and feedback and give us more questions to answer in future podcasts! And thanks for listening!

Turning a FAIL into a WIN

(Originally posted at Rational Jenn)

It's been a helluva day. To sum up:

• Sean has an ear infection (mild so far) that has been keeping us up for the last couple of nights. 

• I wanted to buy Sudafed (because we've had success if we can dry up the fluid in the ear before a nasty feverish infection hits, thereby avoiding penicillin), but couldn't because my driver's license is missing (don't get me started on that, read my Twitter stream for ranty goodness). 

• Got Brendan to obtain the dangerous potion, met him halfway between work and home to exchange the goods (he received tax papers to take to the accountant, because no good deed goes unpunished!).

• Tried to get Sean to take the Sudafed. I succeeded in getting approximately 13% of the dose into his body, frustrating and traumatizing us both.

• Returned home whereupon the big kids promptly woke Sean up from a much-needed (by him and by me) nap.

• Minor clay disaster.

• Nail polish on the floor.

• Yelling by me. :o(

Not my best effort ever.

However, this is where I'm getting better all the time--I realized my awful behavior while it was happening and said "I need a break. I'm taking a break. I don't want to yell any more because it is making me unhappy." And I took said break.

Later, Ryan wanted to talk. It's not fair, says he, that whenever I want to tell him something that's upsetting to me that he has to listen, but sometimes when he wants to say what he is upset about, I shut him down. I listened. He finished his complaint and stared at me challengingly.

I thought about it for a second and then looked at him and said, "You're right. I do that sometimes. I'm sorry."

He interrupted with a pre-fab counter-argument to the thing he thought I was going to say. So I said, "Did you hear me? I just said that you're right about that and I'm sorry about it."

"Oh." says he. :o)

So we worked on a plan for something he can tell me next time I do that. I explained that I didn't want to do that to him, and that it didn't seem fair at all.

Ryan apparently figured that this was a good time to get other injustices off his chest, so he dove right into the next one. One of the things I was fussing at him about earlier was the fact that he borrows my stuff without asking and doesn't return it to its place. He also likes to open up new packages of office supplies (such as boxes of pencils) that I'd prefer to keep in the packages until we need them. That kind of stuff.

Apparently it's not fair that I make him keep the stuff he doesn't want to share up in his room, but then I keep stuff I don't want to share all over the house. Trickier to address. I let him tell me and tell me and tell me, and then I rephrased the problem to make sure I understood.

"You have to keep things you don't want to share up in your room, and you think it's not fair that I can say no to sharing my things that are not up in my bedroom?"

He nodded. Then I had an epiphany!

"Soooo...one of the reasons you feel like you can borrow stuff off my desk and from the kitchen is because it's not up in my room? Even though I've asked you to check with me before you borrow that stuff?"

Assume. Positive. Intent. We had arrived at the crux of our misunderstanding, a misunderstanding that we have a zillion times a day. He's right; I am constantly telling him that if he refuses to share certain toys, then he needs to put that toy in his room. Toys down here, no matter who they belong to, are assumed to be in the general toy rotation, and no fair freaking out if someone has a turn.

He feels put upon, since he feels like this rule applies only to him and not to anyone else in the house, most especially grownups. He'd been blowing me off, partly because of that feeling of injustice and perhaps a bit of genuine confusion.

The fact of the matter is that this rule applies only to him because he is the only one who needs it. If someone asks to have a turn with something of his, he says no 90% of the time. He freaks out 99% of the time he sees someone touching something without permission.

I explained that the purpose of the rule was not that everything downstairs is "in play," but that it's to make things easier on him (and me) because he so often says no and gets so upset about sharing, and sometimes resists my help in working out a plan for taking turns. He'll recall that I rarely, if ever, have asked Morgan to take a toy up to her room--and why? Because she says yes more often than not. My stuff gets to be down here, too, because I say yes most of the time--I just like to be asked if it's certain office supplies (like my stapler and hole punch) so that I can help people remember to return it to my desk (or at least have a clue where in the house it might have been used so that I can locate it).

It was a really good conversation. REALLY GOOD. He listened, I think he understood, and I think he got a sense that this wasn't a limit we'd set just to be mean or unfair to him, that we based it on the things he'd been doing and the things he'd been unable to do. I also talked to him about what needed to happen in order to ditch that limit--he'd need to start saying yes more often than he said no, and he needed to be calmer and more proactive in working out plans (or seeking our help).

I could see his anger dissipate; his face relaxed, he started to smile and joke. Then he tested me out one more time (this is Ryan we're talking about after all!).

"But what about those papers over there? You're ALWAYS making me pick up my things on the floor, you make me move my projects out of the way, and there! THERE! You've left papers!"

He was pointing at my desk, where I'd been sorting the mail. I tend to drop the outer envelopes and junk mail on the floor right next to my desk during the process which had been interrupted by our earlier conflicts.

I pointed out that, as he could clearly see, I hadn't made anybody pick up anything in quite some time. He smiled. I also reminded him that I usually asked him to pick up his projects right away only if they were right in the middle of a pathway.

He said, "Oh yeah! That's right! Because if my project was there [he pointed at the walkway to the kitchen] then everyone would trip and mess it up and aaaaaahhhhh!!! [dramatic reenactment of a pratfall]" More giggling.

By this time we were smiling and laughing, had resolved a few problems, come to a better understanding of each other, some of the rules for our home, and we hugged it out.

So even though this day started off notsogreat, and I was certainly not living up to my own parenting principles for some of it, I'm going to count this day as a WIN.

I modeled how to listen, how to be reasonable, how to do an apology, how to have a civilized problem-solving discussion. I helped him understand that the limits we set are not arbitrary and are fair. I gave him some idea of how he can change things if he wants certain limits to go away. I let him know that I'm willing to uphold our house rules on everyone, even myself. I asked him for help the next time I misbehave, because I want to do better. We looked each other in the eyes and communicated. We shared our problems and hugs.  I got my Positive Discipline mojo back, and helped cultivate some virtues (in myself and in Ryan), too.

Amelia Peabody & Positive Discipline (Or, More Parenting Through Literature!)

(Originally posted at Rational Jenn)

Here's a great quotation from Crocodile on the Sandbank that very  nicely illustrates the "A Mistake is an Opportunity to Learn" (aka "Yippee Mistakes!") principle from Positive Discipline.

One of the characters, Evelyn, is telling the story of her recent past errors and the ruin of her reputation. When Amelia Peabody is not shocked and disgusted by Evelyn's ruination as expected, Evelyn asks in surprise:

"And you are not repelled by my ruined character?"

Amelia replies:

"I do not consider that it is ruined. Indeed, the experience has probably strengthened your character."

THAT is precisely the right attitude we should have about our own mistakes and those of our children and loved ones. We all make mistakes. How we deal with them--whether or not we acknowledge the reality of what has happened, whether or not we are just to those we may have wronged, whether or not we endeavor to correct our ideas or behavior so that we don't repeat the mistake in the future--determines whether our mistakes will strengthen our characters or not.

As parents, the attitude we take toward the mistakes of our children will help them learn and practice making similar choices about their own mistakes throughout their lives. Our attitude should be less berating and shaming, and more "Okay, hey. That's a mistake. How can I help you fix it?" Then we can help them acknowledge what happened, make amends if necessary, and take steps or talk through what happened so they can make a better choice next time.


This post has been brought to you by a character-strengthening day. Have you had the chance to strengthen your character lately? :o)

Discussion, Not Debate

(originally posted at Rational Jenn)

I'm still recovering from MiniCon and dealing with tying up loose ends, so my time for blogging is limited just at the moment. So I might be recycling just a bit, please forgive.

A couple of weeks ago, when a certain thread under discussion on the OGrownups list got heated and became a debate, we called a temporary halt to that thread, and then I wrote the following email to the group. The reason I'm posting it here on Rational Jenn is that I'm proud of the email--I really took time in crafting it and I think it's a good bit of writing--and I also think it's good general advice for thinking about communicating with others in various online forums.

Enjoy!

In keeping with a principle from Positive Discipline that my friend Kelly has condensed into the phrase "Yippee Mistakes!" I view the acrimonious debate that occurred a couple days ago as an opportunity for members of our group to learn something new, regroup, and try to improve for the future. Mistakes were made the other day, and I have no wish to rehash them or point fingers (and ask that you refrain from doing so, too). We all make mistakes--I make them all day long. What I'm interested in is how we move forward as a group.

First let me try to explain why. One of the reasons I'm so excited about this group is that it's a real opportunity for us--as Objectivists, parents, educators, caring aunts, uncles, grandparents, and lurkers who might not be in full agreement with Objectivism but who are interested and learning from our discussions--to have the kind of principled discussions about this very, very important area of our lives. I can talk to other moms in my neighborhood or homeschool groups about parenting--and I do--but those people do not share this common philosophical base with me. This group provides a value for me as a parent, a way to talk about these sometimes difficult parenting issues with others who share my values. I hope that others view this in the same way, too.

Some parenting issues are pretty straightfoward and are purely in the realm of optional values. Other issues are much more difficult to decide about, such as whether to have a repeat c-section (to use an example from my own life that some people view as a controversial, and possibly wrong, decision). I want us to be able to talk about these more difficult, possibly controversial, decisions--the morality behind them, the thinking process, our personal context, our values--here on this list. But that will be impossible if such threads degrade into name-calling and accusations.

Diana suggested that we all go back and read a short essay written by Jean Moroney (http://www.oclubs.org/newsletter/a-discussion-is-not-a-debate-how-to-keep-discussions-friendl.html) , and if you haven't yet done so, please do. To summarize a couple of key points:

A debate . . .
. . . is to be won and lost (there is a winning and a losing side)
. . . requires thorough preparation and exactness of definitions and terms

A discussion . . .
. . . is an opportunity to present your thoughts
. . . is more casual, and participants should not be held to the same standards of precision in terms as a formal debate (or other presentation)
. . . will not necessarily change someone's mind (but that's not the purpose)

And of course, discussions are what we want, not debates. (In fact, it's official OList policy, I believe!)

Here are a few more suggestions I have for future discussions on OG:

• Use "I" language. Instead of "Don't be a maroooon" (as Bugs Bunny would say), say "I don't understand your point. Can you clarify further?" or say "I'm confused by this statement . . . ." Instead of deciding that the other person is [insert adjective here] ask a question to find out. "You" statements can put the other person on the defensive (which can turn the discussion into a win-lose debate); "I" statements are non-accusing and invite clarification.

• Focus on making YOUR point rather than refuting someone else's point.

• Consider that this group provides you with an opportunity to A.) say what you think and B.) maybe get someone else thinking about the idea in a new way.

• Give people the benefit of the doubt. We all want to understand these issues and be good parents. Until you have reason to think otherwise, assume positive intent.

• It's not fair to expect people to instantly change their minds about a subject, no matter how brilliant your argument happens to be. So if someone does not immediately come around to your viewpoint, that does not necessarily make him dishonest or irrational, etc. We all recognize the need for thoughtful consideration, introspection, and examination of premises. I don't know about you, but that process often takes me a while, and can't ever be done well when I'm stressed or tense.

• I'm not suggesting anyone refrain from judging. Feel free to judge others, but consider that your personal judgment of someone else's character is not adding to the discussion, particularly if you are interested in trying to persuade others. Stick to the issues--think what you like of the person, but keep that out of the discussion, and tone of your email.

• Keep in mind that most people don't participate in the discussions, but are probably reading them and learning from them. If people are watching a debate, the focus might be on who is going to make the next zinger, and less on the real issue at hand. That might be entertaining (or depressing) when watching politicians debate, but here, we're all trying to figure out how to do the best we can.

• Save retorts and one-upmanship for private emails--honestly, it's fine with me if you want to have an acrimonious debate, just don't do it here.

Here's something I learned in the how-to-teach parenting workshops I took in the last several months: all I can do as the facilitator/presenter is present the material. The learning must be done by the participants and the observers--and I have no control over that. All I can do here on OG is present my viewpoint and evidence for it. Whether or not I change a mind--outside of my control. In a way, knowing this has been freeing to me--I have no pressure to convince anyone. I challenge myself to be clear and have good reasons for the things I say, but that's all.

Finally, remember that we have ALL made mistakes with our children, both major and minor. And remember that a mistake (Yippee Mistakes!) is a chance to reexamine a premise, change, and improve. So I hope we can move forward from here, and get back to discussing the issues that affect us and the children we all love.

Podcast #7: Siblings

This episode is our most FUN podcast to date (in my–Jenn’s–humble). This time we have:

• Situation of the Week (Kelly): A reminder to give gentle feedback to children
• Topic: Siblings (begins 4:26)
• Q & A: Negotiating with a child–what to do if the child doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain (begins 21:07)

Here’s a link to the book we mentioned at the end of the section on Siblings–SO highly recommended:



I think that Podcast #7 is where we started to get our stride. It’s fun, and enjoyable, and I hope you like it, too!
In other exciting podcasting news: You can now find us on iTunes! We feel like real-live grownup podcasters now! (Thanks so much to Diana and Andrew M. for your assistance with this process!) I will add this podcast shortly, as soon as I can figure out how, but the first six episodes are up. We’d really appreciate you taking the time to visit us on iTunes and rating our podcast.
As always, thanks for listening, and please continue to send us comments, questions, and feedback to cultivatingthevirtues@gmail.com.

Here's the episode, and you can visit our podcast site directly by clicking here.

Powered by Podbean.com

Parenting Toolbox: The 3 Rs of Recovery

(from Reepicheep's Coracle)

When I pulled out this card* today, looking for a tool to write about, I knew it was the right one. I love the cards that tell me how to behave because often, that's all it takes for Livy to behave. Amazing how big an effect it has on her when I act like the responsible, mature adult I should be. This card also explains a tool that I can pass on to Livy as a life skill, and I love those too. And last, but not least, I had to use the steps on this card recently in my daily life.

The card reads:

"Making mistakes isn't as important as what you do about them. Use these steps after you have had a chance to cool off.

"1. Recognize the mistake with a feeling of responsibility instead of blame.

"2. Reconcile by apologizing. Children are so forgiving.

"3. Resolve the problem by working together on a respectful solution."

So, in case you guys were not aware of this, I mess up all the time. I set limits that are unnecessary. I yell at Livy. I boss her when I ought to mind my own business. I treat her unkindly or like I'm superior or like she is a bother. I hurry her up when I don't have anything in particular to do. I let lesser priorities get ahead of her.

And, in case you guys were not aware of this, if you generally treat your child with respect and allow her to voice her opinions, she will let you know immediately when you do any of the bad things above. :)

I try to always keep in mind that I am forging a new path, parenting in a new way (not the way I was parented), and mistakes are to be expected. Not only expected, but welcomed as new chances to learn how to behave myself. Not that I want to yell at her. But when I do, instead of kicking myself (mentally or physically), I can be glad that I have seen a flaw in my behavior or thinking and that I have a chance to work on it.

Therefore, my motto: YIPPEE MISTAKES!!

But what to do when you make a mistake with your kids? Here's a list of some of the ways I have seen parents handle mistakes.

1. Hide them. After all, if we want our kids to respect us, we had better appear to be infallible. Everyone who has ever worked for a jackass boss knows that we don't respect people who cannot admit that they are wrong and make amends. We see them as insecure and rigid and dishonest, and they are.

2. Don't even acknowledge the mistake to yourself. They are only kids, anyway, and we can treat them any way we want. We are the adults; we must be right. This is even worse than the first one. At least if you only hide your mistakes you can improve secretly. If you don't even allow that you could be wrong, there is no possibility of change.

3. Blame them on the kid. "Well, I may have yelled, but you shouldn't do that and make me so mad." Also the M.O. of spousal abusers, though at least their victims can leave. Once again, dishonest, but also just mean. And what a terrible lesson to teach, that a child is responsible for other people's feelings and behavior. This means he is his brother's keeper, and even his mom's.

So, as usual, positive discipline has another approach: the three Rs. When we screw up, we can accept responsibility, apologize to the wronged person, and make a plan (ideally, involving the wronged person in the planning) for working on this problem in the future.

Here's an example of how this might work with me and Livy. I can't think of a recent situation when I've used this with her, so I'm making one up, but it could easily happen this way for us.

Imagine Livy happily playing in her room, absorbed in some important and yet invisible (to me) project. I walk in and say, "Okay, I need some help with the dishes." She says, "I'm busy. I'll help later." I say, "Look, I cooked dinner and grew these vegetables and the least you can do is come and help me clean." We end up in a fight because she doesn't want to disengage from her work, and I am stubbornly refusing to butt out. When I realize that I didn't take her work into account or try to be at all flexible about the help I needed (everything had to be on my time schedule), here's what I would do.

1. Recognize the mistake. Thinking in my head, "I hate to be interrupted and bossed too. Her work is just as important to her as mine is to me, and there was no reason those dishes could not have waited 10 or 15 minutes. I should have been more respectful of her time."

2. Reconcile by apologizing. To Livy: "I'm sorry that I just came in here and demanded that you stop what you were doing and help me RIGHT NOW. I should have told you that I needed help and then worked out a time for doing it that was good for both of us." After this, Livy would definitely need to talk with me about it and probably cry a little bit, if it was an intense fight. I wouldn't move on to step 3 until we were actually reconciled, and she felt heard.

3. Resolve by problem solving. Me: "I don't want to act like that in the future, so I'll need to work on it. Any ideas?" Livy: "Don't boss me anymore." Me: "That's my goal, but I need a plan to help me practice and remember. What if you hold up your hand if I start rudely interrupting you so that I can remember not to?" Livy: "Or I could close my door if I am working on something important." Me: "Okay, that sounds good. Then, when I stop to knock, that will help me remember to respect your time. I'll still want to tell you I need help and work out a plan for when you can take a break and help me." Livy: "That's fine. Now can I get back to my project?" Me: "Sure. When can you help me with the dishes?" Livy: "10 minutes?" Me: "Okay, I'll set the timer."

Now, what did I get out of this? First, I got to make amends for a mistake and repair the relationship with a person I value very much. I got to show her that I want to treat her well, which makes her feel better and makes me feel better too. I got to be virtuous; I used honesty (because looking a mistake square in the face is looking at reality), integrity (because I chose to act in accordance with my values), productivity (because parenting is a career and this is the kind of work I want to do in my parenting), and pride (because I was looking back over my behavior to see if it was virtuous). I also got to teach Livy some important lessons, and that is a big goal of mine.

Here's what I think she got out of it: She learned that adults make mistakes, even parents, and that when she is an adult, she will make mistakes as well. She learned what to do when she makes a mistake. She learned that when we bring a mistake to the forefront instead of evading it, both people (the mistake-maker and the victim of the mistake) get to feel better. She learned about how to be virtuous by watching me use honesty, integrity, productivity, and pride, even if she doesn't know their names yet. She learned that it is not okay to boss people around and to misuse power. And she learned that I love her and don't want to treat her badly, even when I sometimes do it by mistake. That's quite a lot from one little mistake from me and a conversation.

Because it is so applicable to every single person in the world, I think that this tool should be considered a life tool or a people tool, rather than just a parenting tool. I used it myself recently with another adult.

I lost my temper and wrote an unfair blog post. Once I cooled down and realized what I did, I used these 3 steps to handle the situation. They took a long time because it was a big confusing mistake, but in the end, they worked in the same way they do with kids.

First, I acknowledged to myself the mistake I had made. And not just that I had made a mistake, but exactly what I had done and why. This first step is really a kind of introspection, where we figure out what happened and admit, to ourselves, exactly what the error was. Next, I apologized to the person I went off on. I explained my mistake to him and told him how sorry I was.

Finally, I made a plan (This time, I did the problem solving alone, since the victim of my mistake was a stranger and not someone I was likely to go off on again.) for how I was going to cool off before publishing blog posts in the future. I thought of what I could do to made amends to him (apologizing publicly and taking down the post) and of what I could do to prevent these kinds of mistakes in the future.

By dealing with my mistake this way instead of one of the other ways I mentioned, I got to be virtuous and feel better and work for my future improvement. My victim got some justice and acknowledgment from me and got the feeling of reconciliation too. This way of handling the mistake was a win for both of us.

Admitting mistakes openly makes some people feel embarrassed and humbled, but I don't think we have to see it that way. When I behaved so badly, I was not acting virtuously. Nothing else I could do afterward would erase that. My choice was in how to handle the aftermath of the mistake, virtuously or not. When we use these 3 Rs, since we are acting virtuously, we can feel the dignity and honor that virtuous action brings us. I may have been a jackass on the day I wrote the post, but I can be proud of the way I handled it afterward, at least.

This is a big lesson I want Livy to take into adulthood: when we handle mistakes rationally, using these 3 Rs, we are help ourselves (the virtues lead to happiness, after all), and we maintain healthy relationships (treating our loved ones with respect). And I think owning up when I make mistakes is the best way for her to learn it.

*You can see Jane Nelson's Positive Discipline Tool Cards here.